Persona 5 helped the roleplaying franchise break out with mainstream audiences, and it’s also a game that was in the works for a long time. Early work began in 2008, just after Persona 4 came out, with full development kicking off three years later. So, just ahead of the game’s launch in 2016, director Katsura Hashino — steward of the franchise since Persona 3 — asked the team what they wanted to do next. “Everyone said fantasy,” he tells The Verge.

That game would turn out to be…